“Some of the best story tips that I ever got. writing in journalism, over the last several years came from ordinary people.” - Austin Goss
Austin Goss discusses transparency in government, and a recent hit piece about him for his stories about government credit card expenditures.
Kristi Noem threatens to sue The Dakota Scout over credit card spending stories
Kristi Noem's credit card expenses: Search database to see 5 years of charges
Taxpayer-backed credit card use rose with Kristi Noem’s national profile
Transcript:
Dave Roetman: This is the Making Waves Podcast. My name is Dave Roetman. We're here with Austin Goss, investigative reporter extraordinaire. Welcome, Austin.
Austin Goss: Thank you for having me, Dave.
Dave Roetman: I call you an investigative reporter extraordinaire because you're an actual old school reporter, investigative reporter. You actually burn shoe leather reporting on things as opposed to a lot of reporters these days who just put together whatever they see in the news and repackage it.
Yeah, no, I appreciate that. It's interesting, having been only one of the few reporters to really be based out of Pierre full-time. Of course, Bob Mercer is there full-time and does a great job, a real legend within the capacity of the building. But I think there's a lot of benefit that I gain being in Pierre over the years and being able to understand issues as they happen. Not just lawmakers and cabinet secretaries and governors, but people who are on the ground and kind of in state government and hear and see things and talk about things.
I always tell people some of the best story tips that I ever got while I was writing in journalism over the last several years came from ordinary people, people I knew in Pierre, not the governor's office, not lawmakers, not lobbyists. It was just ordinary people who were walking around, and I really take a lot of pride in that. As I said in my Facebook goodbye post, for those who saw it, I really thought about every story and what it would mean to the average person, the working man and woman in South Dakota.
I'm glad, and I think to a lot of people I felt that was bared out and reflected in the work that I did, but it was a good ride.
Dave Roetman: Well, we really appreciate it.
Austin Goss: Thank you.
Dave Roetman: Best of luck in your future travels. There was a hit piece recently published Friday morning on Fox, so it's national attention. It's about the credit card record story that you recently reported on. Tell us what's going on, and what's your reaction?
Austin Goss: Yes, it's funny. Thursday was my last day at the Scout. I've had military training planned for over a year probably pretty much. I mean, Joe and John were great friends and were great colleagues. I mean, I told them about this. I mean, it would have been like last summer.
It's been months. But it's funny, on my last day we were kind of having a rah-rah and talking, doing a little reflection. We get this email from this reporter who I'd never heard of and knew nothing about. I think that would probably be kind of the conventional wisdom amongst others, but very clear what her intentions were in the story that she was going to write. She didn't ask for the credit card records. She's saying that, just very much taking the talking point from Secretary Nome, that she only spent personally $2,000 on those credit cards, which is just empirically false.
I mean, the contention is essentially that she only personally swiped the credit card for $2,000, which that very well might be true. But if then-Governor Noem had been in charge of booking her own travel, I'm not sure that she would have, based on the amount that she traveled, ever been off of Expedia. I don't know that she could have been governor.
She might have just been a full-time travel agent. So, I mean, maybe that's true, but the fact of the matter is that there's $650,000-ish on those credit cards that were spent, far outpacing her predecessors. And her successor, who is her running mate, of course, Governor Larry Rodin now, has said that his spending on the state card is not going to be a problem.
So this reporter emails us, and she, clearly not very inquisitive as to what's in the records, isn't interested in that, is just interested in relitigating the past, talking about things that have already happened. And, I mean, it's no secret, you know, Kristi Noem's a beef with the Scout and with me, specifically, what's happened over the years. But we've had a good relationship over the years.
It's just sort of fallen apart after her book came out last year in the Kim Jong-un story. But it says that she's relitigating much of this old stuff. She's not very interested in the records.
Very clear, we knew right away, this was going to be a hit piece, and it's coming directly from the Department of Homeland Security. And, of course, it comes out, and it's exactly that. And it's a coordinated job.
It appears that Noem's hired some sort of spokesman. I don't know who he is. You know, a couple Twitter-type people tweeting at us and complaining and whining about the story.
Of course, they never actually looked at the records, which, again, speak for themselves. We've reported multiple times that it was her office and her that used those cards, not just her. And, again, their contention is that we have only reported that it was just her.
You can't find a single story, one, nada, zero, where we said that it was just her using these cards. So it's a baseless cease-and-desist letter that Governor Noem sent out, and I'm sure she knows that. It's lawfare. She's engaged in lawfare and trying to silence dissenters.
But, yeah, so this piece comes out, and, you know, it's funny. South Dakotans aren't dumb. There are people who think South Dakotans are dumb. I've learned that over the years, and I've felt that on various issues that have come up. But it's interesting, all of this sort of negative feedback, really 99% of it was coming from out-of-state people who, again, I've never heard of the Dakota Scout, wouldn't ever bother to buy a subscription, and I guess I can't blame them, who didn't look at the records.
I mean, the records speak for themselves. It's very clear what was going on. And, you know, we never alleged that she broke the law, that she did anything illegally. We just provided the records because they're public. They're taxpayer money. Listen, if you think Kristi Noem, and I think you can make this argument.
I do think there's an argument for this. If you think Kristi Noem's travel and escapades across the country over the last several years were a net benefit to the state, then that's fine. You're entitled to that opinion. I wouldn't even say you're wrong. There's probably some truth to that. There was a lot of inbound migration to South Dakota over the last several years.
But that's up for the reader to decide. So, really, this is just an attempt to stifle the First Amendment, to stifle free speech, and it's not going to be followed up on. It's a coordinated hit. They know what they're doing. And, frankly, I know Joe and John are never going to back down, and I'm never going to back down. I'm not going to stand in the face of coordinated opposition from people who have never stepped a foot onto South Dakota soil.
And, in this case, I'm, of course, not talking about Kristi Noem. But I'm not going to bend the knee for these swampy, faceless packs and creatures crawling out of Washington, and I don't think anybody should.
Dave Roetman: That's a fair point, and this is kind of a side note. Former Governor Daugaard was noted for his frugality when he was governor. And I can also say that the grassroots Republicans, the activists, the party people at the grassroots, they are largely on your side on this. They think that this is a bunch of nonsense.
Austin Goss: When the hit piece drops on Friday, the calls that I got were just moderate, conservative, whatever word you want to use, Democrats, just so much positive feedback. Almost all of the negative feedback is coming from out of state, people who don't actually have a stake in this.
But people in South Dakota know what's going on. They've seen it. They've lived through other issues of similar scope with the former administration. They know what's going on.
They're not silly. It's interesting. You know, the allegation is that I have some sort of personal vendetta against Kristi Noem, and just truly couldn't be further from the truth. I hold her family in extremely high regard. I think she has raised wonderful children. I think her husband is a very kind person.
And I would venture to say that I probably have more friends who are former staffers of hers than she does. And so I think she's made some really good hires over the years. I consider a lot of people who work for friends.
And, you know, obviously we had a hiccup in 2023. It's no secret. I apologize. We moved on. She's offered me, I think over the years, a job or insinuated that she wanted to hire me probably three or four times. She gave me a pre-release copy of her book. She flew me around in the state plane with her. So I guess if it was ever personal, it really wasn't me. I never took personally Kristi Noem.
I think the allegation that this whole thing is personal is really cutting one way, and that's on her side.
Dave Roetman: Well, the old saying goes, transparency is for government and privacy is for individuals. And if you're using a credit card, that should be public domain immediately. I can see an argument for security, but that expires in about a month. Any credit card records, any spending by the government should be public records. In fact, should be automatically published and investigated by anyone who chooses to.
Austin Goss: Right. Well, I mean, I'll just even say, like, I mean, I'm not of the opinion that the governor, former, current, future, future, future. I'm not of the opinion any of these people, when they travel, should be sleeping in roadside motels.
I'm not, of course, of the opinion that they shouldn't have security. I absolutely think they should have security. As a taxpayer, I want them to have security.
I would never want anything to happen to Kristi Noem or Larry Rhoden or former governor Mike Rounds or now senator. I just would never want that to happen. That's absolutely insane. But the security is redacted. There's no names. We wouldn't have even reported on the names if they were in there.
Frankly, the names of the security guards, there's no names. You know, we were very respectful of requests from the Department of Public Safety to not put specific dates. I understood their argument.
We fiend to do that in regards to the security team. We were really respectful of their wishes. And, again, I mean, there's a contention that she's making that she only spent $2,000.
It's just bogus. I mean, it's bogus. Even though there are heavy redactions on the records, there are several times where her name pops up directly.
It would take me about 25 minutes, if that, as we documented it very well, to find where Kristi Noem spent more than $2,000. I mean, I can't even begin to describe how silly that contention is. It's ridiculous.
And, again, it's not a matter of how much she spent or didn't spend. I mean, that's up for readers to decide. That's up for taxpayers to decide.
If you think it was a big deal, then good for you. If you don't, then good for you. But, you know, legal threats with no substance to them that are intended to shut down honest reporting and the First Amendment are ridiculous.
Dave Roetman: Of course, politicians, elected officials, have to be very careful about mixing their political activities and their official duties.
Austin Goss: It was pretty clear to me. Again, it's funny. Before this legal threat happened, and even after, you know, I've told people, like, listen. I mean, when she traveled, I remember, like, was she paying to go to hang out with Donald Trump? No. It didn't look like it.The security team went with her. But, I mean, you know, there's an expectation of that. No.
That's not the case. I mean, you know, she wasn't using taxpayer funds, it looked like, from what I could tell, generally speaking, to travel out of state for non-state business. That was pretty obvious to me through looking through records, and I've told people that.
We've never reported as much. Again, it was never personal. It's just what it is.
We got Daugaard's records. We would have requested, and I would think that Joe and John will, we would probably request Rhoden's records in the future. It's personal on one side, and that's fine.
I continue to wish her nothing but the best. I pray for her success, and, you know, whenever she can say what she wants.
Dave Roetman: That's very fair. And, again, like you said, nobody's insinuating there was any impropriety in the mixing between political activities and official state activities. All her expenditures were state activities. I just wanted to make that clear. Do you have any final thoughts?
Austin Goss: It's interesting. You know, you can learn a lot about a person from their friends, and you can learn a lot about a person from their enemies. And I think over the last couple days, I would take both of my people in those categories over most.
The amount of people who have reached out and said very nice things, and I know to Joe and John, too, to keep up the good work. And in my case, just keep your head up. It's not a big deal.
South Dakota sees this for what it is. And then, you know, the people who have kind of taken the bait, hook, line, and sinker, these faceless, nameless, slush fund packs and B-list staffers. And, you know, the former Republican Party state chair, who also happens to be the most unpopular person in the South Dakota Republican Party right now, who are really taking the bait and making it deeply personal.
You know, it is what it is. I don't care. I have my family, and I have my God at the end of the day, and those are the two things that I need. And everything else is extra. I'm proud of the work we did. I'm proud of the fact that those records are public.
I think they should be public for every governor. I think they should be public for every state official. And obviously, a lot of them agree. You know, Marty Jackley published his this week.
Dave Roetman: Good on him.
Austin Goss: They should be open to inspection. And the media, which we didn't, should not be the arbitrator of, you know, the unbiased media. Obviously, if a left-wing, right-wing blog wants to pick these up and defend her or attack her, that's their prerogative. They're allowed to do that, too.
But, you know, the unbiased media, like the Dakota Scout is, is entitled to publish these and allow taxpayers and South Dakotans to say, here's my opinion on this. That's all it was. That's all it ever was.
And I think you can learn a lot about the type of people or the kind of people that the people that are asking for these to be private or secret permanently for forever. I mean, it really speaks to the kind of intentions that they have. As you said, transparency is what government needs.
I mean, privacy is for private citizens. And when you are a government official, you make certain sacrifices, one of them being that any expense you make that comes at a cost to the state, for whatever reason, there's plenty of valid ones, is public. It's a public record.
Dave Roetman: Awesome. Thank you very much for being on the Making Ways podcast. My name is Dave Roetman.
Austin Goss: Thank you for having me.
Dave Roetman: And we've been Austin Goss.
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